Report of the 16th Plenary Meeting

20th October 1995, Tokyo, Japan

List of those present

1 Opening of the Meeting

In the absence of Prof Saito, who was unfortunately injured, Dr Suzuki welcomed delegates to the 16th plenary meeting of ISO/TC92 in Japan. He endorsed the importance of ISO Standards to the international fire community. The retiring Chairman, Dr Thomas, thanked Dr Susuki for his welcome and declared the meeting open. He introduced Prof Cox who had been appointed the new Chairman of ISO/TC92 at the May 1995 meeting of the ISO Technical Management Board.

2 Roll call of delegates

At the request of the Chairman, the leaders of each delegation identified themselves and introduced their delegations.

3 Adoption of the agenda

The draft revised agenda given in document N791 revised, was approved with the change in the order to allow discussions on the WG7 report to take place after the sub-committee reports.

4 Appointment of the drafting committee

The following were appointed

  1. Miss Boughey - Secretariat
  2. Dr Janssens - USA
  3. Mr Couderc - France

5 Report of the previous meeting

The report of the previous meeting, held on 17/18 September 1992 in Ascoli Piceno, given in document N776 was accepted. It was noted that resolution 219, agreed at the meeting, requested a liaison meeting to be held between the Chairmen of ISO/TC92/SC2 and CEN/TC127 to co-ordinate their respective work programmes on fire resistance testing. This meeting had taken place and consequently a joint ISO/CEN enquiry had been carried out on the basic test method DIS 834-1.

6 Report of the Secretariat

The Secretariat introduced the extract from the annual report for ISO/TC92, N790, which listed the current membership and committee structure under ISO/TC92.

Following discussions at the last meeting of ISO/TC92, a new title and scope had been agreed and subsequently submitted to the ISO Technical Management Board. This had been accepted at the TMB meeting in May 1995. The consequences of this action would be considered later in the agenda when considering the report from WG7.

New Directives for the work of ISO technical committees had come into effect on 1 October 1995 and the Secretary had given several presentations throughout the sub-committee meetings highlighting the changes. The new Directives required a more managerial approach, 'top down', to Standards production with tighter time scales set for Standards production. The subsequent reports from the sub-committees had taken these factors into account and project leaders had been identified for each work item and target dates set.

7 Report from SC1 - Reaction to fire tests

Dr Sundstrom introduced the report from SC1 in document N796. The working group on smoke measurements had been disbanded as its one work item had been deleted, leaving 5 active working groups. In introducing the work programme given in N796, Dr Sundstr"m pointed out that two task groups had been created under SC1 to consider two proposals for new work items which had been accepted for the preliminary stage. The task groups would assess these proposals, as requested by SC1, and report back at the next meeting if they should then be balloted as new work items. Dr Sundstr"m regretted that there had been considerable delays at ISO Central Secretariat over the publication on one particular Standard (ISO5658-2) and the Chairman agreed that he should contact Central Secretariat about these delays.

It was acknowledged that SC1 had a large work programme and, if necessary, items should be prioritized to ensure satisfactory progress in completing the Standards to the timetable agreed, taking into account the limited resources of international expertise available for Standards work.

8 Report from SC2 - Fire resistance

Dr Wesche introduced the report from SC2 given in document N797. The working group structure remained unchanged with 6 active working groups. Unfortunately there had been some delays in progressing work items and some of this had arisen because of the attempts to work in close collaboration with CEN/TC127. Whilst members still wished for close liaison between ISO and CEN, SC2 had accepted that better progress might be made in some areas if ISO and CEN progressed their work separately, whilst retaining close liaison wherever possible.

9 Report from SC3 - Toxic hazards in fire

The report from SC3, N798, was presented by Mr Roux. Discussions were progressing satisfactorily in SC3 and there were no questions for Mr Roux.

10 Report from SC3 - Fire safety engineering

Dr Becker introduced the report from SC4 in document N799. He reminded members that at the last meeting of ISO/TC92 there had been some debate as to whether the work on fire safety engineering should stay in ISO/TC92, but with the newly agreed title and scope of TC92 ISO Central Secretariat had now confirmed that this work should remain in ISO/TC92. Document N799 detailed the current work programme of 8 draft Technical Reports which it was anticipated would all progress at the same rate and be published together.

11 Report from WG8 - Fire terms and definitions

The convenor of WG8, Dr Thomas, introduced the report in document N801. Unfortunately only a small number of member countries had commented on the revision of ISO/IEC Guide 52, together with comments from IEC, ISO/TC61 plastics and ISO/TC38 textiles. This had resulted in limited participation in WG7 to date. Comments on the latest draft would be incorporated into a revised text which would then be circulated as a Committee Draft to TC92 and all sub-committees. Following this stage it was hoped that a DIS would then be prepared which would be widely circulated to all interested parties including other ISO and IEC committees with an interest in fire. Dr Thomas was thanked for his work as convenor of this group. He expressed his wish to retire from the convenorship and it was agreed that Mr Couderc would replace him, and the Secretary confirmed that BSI would continue to provide Secretarial assistance to the convenor. Several countries indicated their wish to nominate an expert to serve on WG8 and they were asked to notify the Secretary of the name of their expert, by the end of 1995. Germany pointed out the importance of this document, not only in ISO but also in CEN, where German was an official language. Consequently it was requested that a trilingual version was prepared in English, French and German. This was accepted on the understanding that the incorporation of the German text did not delay the document.

Resolution 224

The question of seeking other ISO Technical Committees' commitment to the use of the eventual Standard was raised. With the disbandment of TAG5, it was not certain in which forum this point could be considered and the Chairman was to raise this with the ISO Technical Management Board.

12 Report from WG7 - Advisory and Liaison

The Chairman reminded members that WG7 consisted of the Chairmen and Secretariats of the 4 sub- committees together with any individuals the Chairmen wished to invite for particular discussions. A meeting had been held a few days before the ISO/TC92 meeting to consider what ISO/TC92 might do as a consequence of the agreed new title and scope of ISO/TC92 and implementation of the revised ISO Directives. Document N800 listed the main points which WG7 considered should be addressed and, further, WG7 recommended that a group of experts should be appointed to consider these points and report back to WG7 their recommendations. A suggested membership of the group was included in N8OO and the Chairman explained these members were proposed on the basis of obtaining world-wide representation and also breadth of experience and knowledge of fire safety standardization. Dr Thomas added that as the retiring Chairman, he had attended the WG7 meeting, and he endorsed these recommendations.

In a subsequent wide ranging discussion delegations present accepted the need for a group to address the items identified in N800 but felt that it was important to clearly identify the task of the group. Some delegations also felt wider representation was needed in the group of experts. In the subsequent lunchbreak the basis of task required of the expert group was drafted for discussion in the afternoon session.

As the agreed leader of the expert group, Mr Roux introduced the proposed task of his group. He emphasised that changes would not be imposed upon TC92, a detailed consultation would take place and all countries and organizations which had an interest in the work of TC92 would be given an opportunity to put forward their views. If radical views were being proposed these could be submitted to Mr Roux, in confidence, if wished.

It was further emphasized that the group of experts was advisory and they would report back to WG7 which in turn would report to TC92 at its next meeting. Noting that many delegations had views about the membership of the expert group it was agreed this would not be agreed within the meeting. Mr Roux would take note of the interests needing representation and would constitute his group accordingly with a recommended maximum number of six.

Acknowledging the importance of the final recommendations to ISO/TC92 the Secretary was asked to circulate the document to ISO/TC92 four months before the next plenary meeting.

Resolution 225

The UK then pointed out that whilst this group of experts was examining the future of ISO/TC92, WG7 should review the existing management structure under ISO/TC92 to ensure the current and future work programme was being progressed effectively. This was agreed.

Resolution 226

13 Liasion reports

13.1 CIB W14

Prof Kokkala introduced document N795 which gave a report of activities in CIB W14. There were no particular projects being passed forward for standardization to ISO/TC92 but the future close liaison between the two organizations was emphazied.

13.2 IMO

The report from IMO, document N802, was introduced by Dr Yoshida. The increasing use of ISO Standards by IMO was emphasised and IMO hoped to establish closer liaison in the future with direct representation from ISO/TC92 to IMO.

14 Approval of resolutions

The resolutions drafted during the meeting in document N803 were considered and the resolutions appended to this report were agreed.

15 Arrangements for next meeting

It was agreed that the next meeting would be held in 2 years time, towards the end of 1997, at a venue to be confirmed.

16 Close of meeting

Before finally closing the meeting, the Chairman, on behalf of all members of ISO/TC92, expressed their great appreciation of all the work carried out by Dr Thomas during a 21 year period as Chairman. His enthusiasm for the work of ISO/TC92 and fire safety was acknowledged. He was presented with a commemorative Japanese fan as a token of members' thanks and best wishes for the future.

The Chairman then thanked Japan for hosting the meetings very efficiently, and for their hospitality throughout the 10 days of discussion. In particular thanks were given to the representatives of AICBH for their invaluable support and assistance to the Secretariats.

Finally delegations were thanked for their attendance and the meeting closed.

R Boughey (Miss) Secretariat ISO/TC92


Resolutions agreed during the meeting on 20th October 1995, Tokyo

Resolution 224 (Tokyo 1995/1)

ISO/IEC Guide 52

ISO/TC92 agrees that the revision of ISO/IEC Guide 52 shall be circulated as a Committee Draft to all Sub-committees of ISO/TC92 for a six month comment period for progressing to DIS at which stage there will be an opportunity for other ISO committees with an interest in fire to comment on the draft. A target date of 96-03 is agreed for circulation of the CD. The new convenor of WG8, preparing this document, is Mr. Couderc, with BSI continuing to provide secretariat support. Noting the interest of CEN in the use of this document, it is agreed that the document should be progressed as a trilingual Guide (English, French and German). However as the existing draft is in English and French only, it is agreed that the incorporation of the German text shall not delay the target dates. Experts from the following countries will serve on the WG. France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Romania, UK, and USA. National delegations are asked to notify the secretary of TC92 of their experts by 95-12-31.

Resolution 225 (Tokyo 1995/2)

Future strategy of ISO/TC92

ISO/TC92 agrees to establish a task group with the following responsibilities

  1. Development within 12 months of a 10 year strategy for TC92 which recognizes its wider responsibility following the change in title and scope agreed by TMB in May 1995.
  2. The group will consider implications of the TC's responsibility being extended beyond just test methods of buildings and building products and encompassing hazard analysis and risk assessment methodologies etc.
  3. The group will consult widely within ISO and IEC to determine the TC's role and relationships with regional bodies such as CEN, CENELEC and organizations representing prenormative research such as CIB W14, RILEM; the professionals eg SFPE, which have an interest in fire safety engineering, and its relationship with regulatory processes.

It should consider what role, if any, the TC has in areas other than buildings (eg tunnels, aircraft etc) and whether there needs to be new work on other issues.

The group will recommend an appropriate structure in light of the envisaged future work programme of the TC.

The task group is to be convened by Mr. Roux and he will, in consultation with the chairman of TC92, decide the membership (maximum 6) in light of the neccessary expertise required to fulfill its given role.

The report from the task group will be circulated to members of ISO/TC92 at the end of 1996 for detailed 5 months consultation within member countries. A final proposal will then be circulated 4 months before the next meeting of ISO/TC92, late 1997.

Resolution 226 (Tokyo 1995/3)

Review of existing work programme

ISO/TC92 instructs WG7 to review the existing management systems under ISO/TC92 to ensure that subcommittees are managing the current work programme, proposals for new work items and establishment of priorities in a consistent manner.


Documents circulated since the 16th meeting

2 November 1995

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